Forum
November 14th 98 : Some forums have been created on different subjects we are muling about at the moment , so you can insert your mails directly in them : see the page :
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9445/forums.htmlSubjects begun :
Following the sending of the report Interzone Academy on the July 13th, some of you sent mails the content of which seems to me worth being shared between us, so we can all gather out respective points of view, experiences and data, and then decide more accurately then.
I put also my answers, which involves only me at the time I write it and nobody else : I can make errors, can change my opinion on the base of new elements, etc... So do not hesitate to share yours.
Some do not want their E-mails be on the web, so I just mention their remarks:
One of you says he cannot foresee a commune without a power structure. This point seems important to consider, because it involves the type of relation of the people in the commune.
Here is my point of view :it depends what we mean by power : if one means dominance of a boss on the rest of the people who would take decisions for the whole, I do not agree with it. If it means capacities, then I agree. (Read on this subject : "The power of Persuasion" by Ray Funkhouser, "The Anatomy of Power" by John Kenneth Galbraith, and of course, Henri Laborit's book if you can find it in English : "L'Eloge de la Fuite").
What I wrote in the report on the structure of Interzone is not a theorical assertion : I have experimented it myself, in the frame of power structures, and then in the frame of relations of non-dominance, in the group B 23, the results were beyond my expectations : the problems of relations generated by the power structure disapeared in the second one, and people were just great. We never had a conflict between us, nor the least problem in 3 years. The problems came then when some people tried to impose a power structure.
This might appear as idealistic at first sight, because we are used to function into power structures, but considered under a scienctific angle (1998), the similarity of structure is an undispensable factor to consider : if the structure of the group does not fit the structure of the organisms of the group, the dissimilarity of structure prevents the whole to function accurately. We are getting to this result at all human levels presently : economical, political, educational, etc..., hence the dead roads we get to in those domains.
Let's apply in human domains the data of our present scientific level of ecolution, and let's see the results. Now if the results do not fit our expectations, then you can blame me, but afterwards, not before.
JOne also has to consider Interzone has a specific group : I doubt many people among us would accept a power structure; we are too aware of control mechanisms we have studdies in Burroughs 'books, and for a good part of us, suffer from them. I would not for myself and just cannot function in one, otherwise, I would never have invested my time in Interzone. We have never been a power structure until now, and the results we got seem fine to me.
We are members of a group of Burroughs' fans, we are not a sect, nor an ideological group, and we do not need any guru to tell us to do this or that.
Interzone would never have become what it now is if I had tried to play the boss, you would have refused it, and I would have been grateful to you for this.
We got some common concepts and models through Burroughs work : the Johnson Family, which rests on a code of conduct we all agree with, the Academy, etc., and personnaly, I never met a group of having such a quality of relationship before, so I have no doubt about the people I work with since one year now. Gary and Tanya came for a week-end in March (we still have to end the report of it, and Gary has already done his work), and it was just great, quite impressive I must say. This made us more close friends than before, and we know we can count on each other. Same with Pierre, Foe, Rick, Chaya, Koulim, Sam, Gessie, Jim, Jon, and many others.
Best
Iz
"Valhalla Blues" Garrison Burke
The Academy :-----Message d'origine-----
De : fS0 <
*********************************************************
De : fS0 <
sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>At 08:46 PM 15/07/98 +0200, you wrote:
***************************************
Let me know if you are okay to
include your mail in it.
*********************************************
De : fS0 <sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 17 juillet 1998 07:48
Objet : Re: Interzone Academy 23
In blue : extracts of he previousexchanges (see upper)
>At 21:02 16/07/98 +0200, you wrote:
Iz: We never thought about this before, LOL !
>>Untill now, we did not need money. The tee-shirt is an experiment,
>>and it's great and real fun. It works because the work of the people is
>>great,
>>and the relationship we have settled between us is very important for us.
>
Sam: >it sounds like the t-shirt project went well! but from the looks of things
>the emphasis was not on money at all, especially if you are selling them
for
>only $6 each. when larger profits come into the picture, or indeed any
>profits at all, there has to be some agreement arranged beforehand amongst
>ourselves about where the money is going. we don't want to have arguments
>about it afterwards because someone thought the money was being distributed
>amongst us evenly, and someone else thinks "no, i should have more than you
>because i did more", and everyone else thinks it should all go back into
the
>interzone fund!!! (i know it's not a nice thoguht but we have to be
prepared
>for anything once real money comes into the picture. it's unfortunately a
>fact of life)
Iz : Yes, this seems to be sensible and realistic.
Sam: >>>yes, this is a problem. i don't suppose there are any interzone members
who
>>>have some experience with accounting (even if they have just studied it)?
>>>
Iz : Foe and Pierre seem to be the most skillful, and they manage really
well
>>in what they do. But they do not take money as the most important value. I
>>mean
>>money is not the first aim, though we hope we can live with our work,
which
>>anybody in the world is in right to expect.
>
Sam: >of course money is not the main AIM, but it must be a major consideration!
>like i say, once a situation becomes at all profitable (as i believe the
>interzone projects will be), you have to have precise plans and agreements
>about what is being done with the money. out of 350 people, there are
surely
>going to be different ideas about how the money is to be used. so if foe
and
>pierre are the most skillful, then they must be involved in whatever plans
>are made. i know it might sound like i am preoccupied with money, but i
just
>think that this is something that really needs to be sorted out completely
>before we start selling anything!
Iz : Absolutely, I agree with this. We have to agree about something in this
domain
before doing anything.
Iz: >>>>If we have a common fund, we might consider the priorities of the
>>>>group and the people :
>>>>- make an urgency found for people who need money (for instance
>>>>people like chadi or Koulim), we can for instence lend them money
without
>>>>interest
>>>>for a plane ticket.
>>>
>>>this is a wonderful idea, and i don't think any of us could disagree...
>>"the
>>>zone protects its own", after all.
>>
>>
>>Yes, this is the Johnson family model of relationship. It's not only a
>>romantic idea, it's a human necessity. We are a chance the ones for the
>>others.
>>Alone, we are weak. Together, we feel great. To me it's a very cheerful
>>feeling to be in Interzone.
>
Sam: >yes, i know exactly what you mean... i have friends outside the zone, but i
>really feel strength in the zone. i know i have other friends i can count
>on, but perhaps not for everything! i have absolutely no doubt that in the
>zone i can find people (like you) who are willing to help me if i have a
>major problem... it feels safe.
Iz : yes, exactly. Safe is the word. But we must still sort out questions
of strategy, for people who are in danger like chaya, so when a
danger comes, then we know what to do and who to adress requests.
>
Iz: >>Yes. We can earn money anyway : the musicians can make concerts, the
writers
>>can give lectures, the place can be a permanent show. We can have a bar
>>and a cheap restaurant, can make and sell dreamachines, we can sell our
CD,
>>tee-shirts,
>>etc... There are lots of things we can do.
>>The main thing I think is to be self-sufficient.
>>
>>If we would have the place, then many questions would be solved.
>
Sam: i think so. i just can't wait until some day i will fly over to visit you
>and there will physically be a whole zone community there! :) it is such a
>great idea, i am very excited that this group is not only having these
great
>ideas but is serious about making them work! i am very happy that you told
>me about the zone! thankyou! :)
>
Iz : Thanks for your enthousiasm and involvement, Sam.
I do hope we are gonna make it. :))))))))
Iz: >>You can see the account of it in the history of Interzone, which is in the
>>reports
>>in the site westernlands : see in the front page, in the first menu :
>>reports of
>>October and November. so you see the way the vote was made.
>
Sam: >i will look next time i get the chance. it sounds interesting. :)
>
Iz : >>Here is the page I just made (not finished yet, but you got an idea) .
Tell
>me if you are okay with it.
>
Sam: >yeah, i have no problems with it. concerning the comment someone else made
>concerning the necessity of a power structure : i agree that people will
>need to have certain set capacities in order to keep a commune running,
>otherwise there would be chaos and the things that need to be done might
not be done! also, each person's abilities need to be assessed when assigning
>tasks. we don't want people's talents to be wasted! we must not forget that
>this applies not just to a commune, but also to any commercial ventures the
>group might have. we must be responsible and professional if we are
actually conducting business with people. as for a heirarchical structure, i think
>there will always be a sort of unnofficial heirarchy involved - you, iz,
>seem to be a hub of communications and an organiser, for example. there are
>also other key members of the group (e.g. foe) who have more conspicuous
>roles in the group's activities. these people will always be seen as a sort
>of "leader" group. this, however, does not mean that you guys have more
>power than anyone else of course, or more right to your opinions! i don't
>think anyone needs to worry about THAT kind of power being wielded. the
>spirit of the zone is one of equality amongst members, and for everyone to
>find the same kind of strength and power in the group. we are all equal,
and we protect our own...
Iz : Yes, I agree with this equal thing. Basic. And with what you said here.
Iz:
>>Take care and love IzSam:
you too! and don't hesitate to include this and future exchanges on youDe : fS0 <
sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>At 03:07 PM 17/07/98 +0200, you wrote:
>>i figured. :) the problem with government is that no matter how nice they
>>are, they always want SOMETHING from you. and i think in this case they
>>would probably want control over what was done with the place. maybe we
>>shouldn't get them involved unless we have to. ;)
>>
Iz :
>yes, exactly. Safe is the word. But we must still sort out questionsIz :
>Yes, I agree with this equal thing. Basic. And with what you said here.Sam:
I think the idea that all of us in interzone are equal is very important************************************************
De : MrVaranasi@aol.com <MrVaranasi@aol.com>
*******************************************************
Beat Hotel, hotel in Poitiers ?
De :
baudron@interpc.fr <baudron@interpc.fr>Hi all,
Here are the main directions which occured recently
on the commune projects :- Ramuntcho says remaining immaterial and impossible to locate
is important.I like the idea of the Beat Hotel, but the problem is money : I got
none and cannot invest the first cent in this. Now if we can solve this, why not ? I have sent a letter to a friend who deals with houses and properties business in Paris, I'll tell you what he says.We can also make it in Poitiers or the surrounding, 1.30 hour far from Paris
by train , and much cheaper.- Josh proposes to make the commune in New Mexico
in a ghost city we do not have to buy, just come and settle.- Rick and Iggy would like also an island or a country in the East, in a cheap and
beautiful country, far from the shit of the West.- Michael 23 wrote once to say he plans to make one in Indonesia.
- Jake thinks we better find a place before this civilisation
collapses totally, and advise to find a place and make it .- Rasta in Holland wants to make one with some friends,
but the problem remains the way to ear one's life.- I think one is never so well served than by oneself, so
we better take in charge our life, because the ones who pretend to do it at our place are at the source of a good part of the problems and their system is collapsing, so better do without them.- Several other people said they were interested in the commune
and want to be kept updated.- Some need a shelter, or asylum, place to live
out of their country, or a place to rest, to get cured, etc.- Some want a gathering point for the holidays, etc...
The idea of an hotel seems perfect as it allows to realize most
of our aims and earn money as well. It can be done anywhere. In such a place, as far as the money is concerned, there are more possibilities than we can apply.Now for the question of the money at the moment,
why not finding several people who would deal with it specifically : the ideal would be the people who would offer to bring money, some who got a certain habit to deal with it, one in a country we would open a count in, and who would deal with the bank, etc...For the money we can earn in the frame of Interzone and thanks
to it, it could go to the Zone, and we would decides of its use in function of the needs of its members, and to invest in the common projects.See what you think.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
***********************************************************
De : fS0 <sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>
*****************************
De : fS0 <sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 28 août 1998 06:53
Objet : Re: Commune , hotel, etc.
At 06:30 PM 27/08/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi Sam,
>Thanks for your mail and proposition.
>It seems the people who want to make the commune
>think the same way .
>I include it in the forum about the Academy and
>Beat hotel.
that's cool. :)
>Future will way.Josh is about buying a place in New Mexico, in the surrounding of Santa Fe.
>Iggy thinks about selling his entreprise and starting something, Koulin wants to come to
>Europe or US for his studdies, and some more people want to come, from Lebanon.
yeah, there is obviously a lot of interest. the questions are : which of these ideas is practical? should there be several communes in different places or should the group focus its efforts on one? etc... the answers will make themselves apparent with futher discussion.
>If the hotel works, this one or another, then we can start running it.
>So, things are progressing little by little.
this is good. nothing can be rushed when we are dealing with such an important project. :)
>Pierre is very busy with his work at the moment, so he might take some times to answer about
>the tee-shirt. Do not worry for the money, wait to have an answer from Pierre, there is no hurry.
cool. i'll wait to hear from him then. i can understand that he is busy :)
well, take care! love,
sam
************************************************
De : Baudron <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 28 août 1998 19:00
Objet : Hotel in Poitiers ?
Hi all,
I have just been calling an agency in Poitiers about the prices of hotels : the guy was very kind.
He said that , to give an idea, there is a bar restaurant hotel just outside of Poitiers with a big room for banquets, and
a house to live in as well for 350.000 francs without agency and solicitor fees (10 % for the solicitor,
got no idea for the agency) presently, which seems rather cheap to me, but the place might look like shit.
He says it's not possible to rent a place without buying the fond de commerce (do not know the English term).
So even with the Beat Hotel, we cannot just come and rent the place, we got to buy the whole thing.
Now, no need of diploma for running the place : any of us can officially make it.
For people out of Europe I guess a tourist visa would be ok, as it's impossible for you to come officially as workers
at the moment I think if you are not European, unless you are a big boss who employs people.
So this gives us an idea already.
Now we can see who would be interested in the hotel restaurant, bar formula, who wants to invest in it,
work in it, etc...
There also is another agency for renting and selling big houses, castles, etc..., but here we would not
have the work as well, which is necessary for the most of us.
The hotel and bar restaurant could be okay for bringing a part of the money, the other activities (expos, concerts,
shows, selling of videos, tapes, CD, books, would bring extra money as well.
See what you think.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands
************************************************
De : Laurent Lambert <sky86327@skynet.be>
À : Izzy <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : samedi 29 août 1998 01:57
Hello,
je viens de recevoir ton mail pour l'hotel à Poitiers.350.000 FF ça doit être pour le fond de commerce tout seul,pas pour l'achat,sinon c'est pour rien.Donc faudra voir combien de loyer.
Iggy
----------
> From: BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
> To: Iggy <sky86327@skynet.be>
> Subject: Re: hotel
> Date: samedi 29 août 1998 14:54
>
> Okie Dokie,
>
> Il me semblait bien en y reflechissant > que c'etait quelque chose comme ca.
> Je retelephone et te dis.
>
>
> Le s 350 000 representent sle fond tout seul sans frais de notaire ni d'agence. Il comprend le fond plus le
> logement (impeccable) L'hotel comprend 9 chambres. le fond donne le droit de commercer et d'exploiter.
> Licence 4 pour l'alcool incluse. Hygiene et securite impeccable ainsi que tout le materiel de l'hotel (litterie, etc...)
>
****** C'est toujours pas cher du tout,mais il faut voir le prix du loyer
mensuel.C'est une bonne affaire,il faudrait une fois aller voir sur place.
> parkinf devant l'hotel.
> C'est un moulin , devant une rivivere (comme cic) peu de crues.
>
***** Que c'est romantique -))))))))))))))
> Dans une commune touchant Poitiers, a 10 mn du centre, axe fre<quente :
> passage obligatoire, a cote d'un tabac et commerces.
>
> En plus de l'hotel bar restau, il y a une grande salle
> pour banquets et une maison d'habitation.
Beaucoup de possibilités.Ca vaut peut-être la peine de rencontrer le
propriétaire et de negocier le prix.Eventuellement envisager l'achat du
batiment si celà s'avère plus intéressant que de louer.
Merci pour les bonnes nouvelles,
Iggy
*************************************************************
De : Baudron <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : samedi 29 août 1998 22:54
Objet : hotel
Hi all,
I have called again to the agency in Poitiers
to ask for clarifications : the thing to buy is the fond de commerce (35 000 fr : 70 000 $) : the trade by itself which includes the permits, licenses for alcohol, etc, and which gives the right to run the place (hotel, bar restaurant). The price is half its value, because the people need to sell it now because of health problems. The place is a mill, like here, in front of a small river.9 rooms, a big room for banquets.
But then the place is to rent 3500 fr, which is rather cheap. (700 $) Iggy thinks that the infos are worth seeing the place, which I might do with Bill next week, because the whole is cheap.Now, in such a project :
1. does the Zone need an hotel bar restaurant ?
As far as I am concerned, if the people want it, I am ok to work in it as I always said. this would provide us ways to welcome anybody coming, and to earn our life as well, in a place easy of access near here.2. If yes, where can we find the bread ?
Jake will give money when he earns some with his CD. We can ask in a common report.3. who really wants to get involved in it ?
I'm ok to work in such a place, but not alone, with other zoners.Tell me what you think.
Have a great sunday.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
***********************************************
De : J. D. Steele <
dreamers@interlog.com>Dear Izzy ;
Thanks for your note on all the updates on the Beat Hotel , the one you mentioned for about 30,000 fr . Yes , it does sound reasonable and I think with serious questions answered perhaps it could funded .
I have a serious suggestion ...??
Perhaps the money could be raised as in " donations " from interested people , who were WSB fans - with money , as a kind of " Museum of an odd sort " reconstructing an ambieance of "The Beat Hotel of WSB " .../
I mean also dedicated to all his work ; with pictures , sounds ... time machine , orgone box , projects .
Discussions , readings could be held for many writers , poets ...all which could raise money , plus the restaurant and all the other facilities etc..
Perhaps one one his wealthy publishers would want to be a partial investor ... do you know what I mean ?? But it's important ; the values and control , rules etc . are maintained by the " Zoners " .
Perhaps this kind of thing could be advertised as a gathering spot for other writers of may different styles in Europe and over here . I think it could be very productive if done right !
What do you think about this kind of approach . I can't go there right now , but I am very good with ideas and creative money projects .
I would be happy to have a serious " Chat " about this and other thoughts ... other folks may have , which I think could take place , after you have a good look the place .
The reason I feel strongly about this IDEA is that WSB had alot of personality , drama and stories attached to his life . I think such a " Home " for his rememberance would be a very fitting thing and something he might have approved of if done right and I believe WOULD attract people world -wide , but is this what you or other envisioned ?
thanks for your letter in that regard Izzy .
" as above so below " .. best to you and Baud ; luv Jake
******************************************************
**************************************************************
Hi all,
Some news about the hotel :
the Beat Hotel is presently running, under the name
of "L'Hotel du Vieux Paris", so let's forget about it at the moment. I gave a phone call to an agency in Poitiers to have an idea of the prices here, and the man proposes a hotel bar restaurant for sale half of its value for health reason :the business including all the licenses for alcohol, rights, etc...,
is 350 000 fr : 70 000 $ (less the fees of solicitor : 10 per cent, and the fees of the agency) and the monthly rent for the place : 3500 fr : 700 $.The hotel has 9 rooms, besides the restaurant and bar,
there is a big room for banquets, expos, etc..., a parking, and a house to live in. The whole stuff is new and impeccable, said the agent. The place itself is a mill, in front of a little river : no risk of problem in case of flood. The conditions of hygiene and security are perfect : new kitchen with brand new equipment.There is a tabaco shop and facilities in the area, the place is 10 minutes
far from Poitiers centre. Poitiers is 1.30 hour far from Paris in TGV (high speed train), so the place is easy of access.I first gave those infos to some of you involved in the idea, and they say : "this is cheap !
go and have a look." One in US is ready to give the down payment if the place is worth it. Another one here will come and work.I am too as far as I am concerned. Lived one year in Poitiers at uni,
and know the city. The first answers you send seem favorable to the hotel restaurant, as the idea of a Home for the Zone would have been supported by Burroughs. And this is my way of seeing things : a place we can come for rest, holidays, meetings with other Zoners, and where we can earn our life as well and sell our artistical productions.I'm gonna see the place this week, shall take pics,
and scan them then , so you can have an idea. For the eventual repairs, Bill, an English friend met in India 25 years ago who just bought a place here he is is fixing for him, says he can fix for us anything if we need it (he has just been finihshing the roof, and the plumber work in his place, and is a carpenter). But the place should be impeccable, according to what the guy say.There is no need of a diploma in France to run such a place :
so legally, we can make it.Let me know what you think, if any of you are ready to invest in it, or
work in it, or whatever : I am okay to work in it , but not alone , with other Zoners !Last minute news : the owner of the place has just died and
the agent is trying to contact his wife. He will call tomorrow and I shall probably visit it at the end of the week, so we have time to see between us if we want it and can make it.Love
Iz
**************************************************************
De :
Las Vegas Branch (Agent Foe) <foe4foe@sprynet.com>izz; find out how much is the down payment.
this is better deal than anything around/ i will try to look for somebody who would cover the down payment and we can take it from there.
f
***************************************************************
De :
Baudron <baudron@interpc.fr>Hi Foe,
Ok, I ask the agency today and tell you.
I know that it generally is the 10 % of the sum, which makes 35 000 fr.****************************************************************
De : J. D. Steele <
dreamers@interlog.com>*****************************************************************
De :
anno@mindspring.com <anno@mindspring.com>De :
HARDDRIVE, fOE <foe4foe@sprynet.com>7,000 dollars is not much for an investment.
But if I get one of my associates involved in the project, we will have to have him/her in for a share holder (a certain percentage of the profit you will make there, running the hotel and restaurant must go to that person monthly or annually). Is Bill one of your English friends?
*******************************************************************
De : Sam Birbeck <
sb00432@snetad.cpg.com.au>De : Jim Byer <
jbyer01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>****************************************************************
September 1st 98 :
After a phone-calle from the agent, it appears that the owner of the place had debts, so his inheritors may not be accept the inheritage. So they have to think about it and take a decision then. As a result, we don't know what's going on with the place. In this context, I proposed the agent that in case it would be legally possible, we only rent the place and run it in case it would be the interest as well of the future owners. He is gonna try to get the keys of the place, and if so, I shall visit it on next Friday.
****************************************************************
Hi Jean-Pierre, Jim, Alf, and John,
This mail about the project of buying the business of a hotel-bar-restaurant in Poitiers we are on at the moment : after Pierre's idea to buy the Beat Hotel in Paris, we found out it's still running. Then I phoned to an agency in Poitiers to have an idea of the prices in the region, and the agent proposes me a place half of it's real value for health reason.
The info he gives seem to fit our needs, and the answers I am getting from the Zoners are positive : "Go for it, let's try to make it if it's worth it." See the infos about it below, and the forum for the mails about it : http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/mails.html
I do not know if this will work, have to visit the place first and see if it's worth it. But obviously the Zoners want a home somewhere, and are enthousiastic at the idea. Some need to find a job here to keep on their studdies, so the bar hotel would be perfect in the circumstance.
One Zoner proposes to ask his associates to lend the money for the down offer, but says they will probably ask for a monthly or annual contribution on the money we earn, which does not seem correct to me. So we are looking for other ways. Now, you are aware of the therapeutic aims of the Academy for the people of the group who need it : depression and addiction are the main directions at the moment. Could not we use the place for them, and put up a program of cares in the frame of "home hospitalisation" where you , Jean-Pierre, would be the doctor, make the prescriptions, have talks with the people, and run it with a liberal nurse and the help of the Zoners in the hotel ?
This would not be permanent of course, just when specific people need it. We could also put up a program of personnal development for the people who want to follow it.
We might also see if there are possibilities to test the heantos, the Viet-Namese treatment for addicts So and So gave infos on some months ago . This seems also to be effective in cancer treatment.
Other direction we might follow are : a scientific studdy of the dreamachine effects, and work in this direction with the docs of the Zone who are already into it : Jim and John.
Does this seem to you possible or totally irrelevant ? Any advise and suggestion welcome.
All the best to you
Iz
*******************************************************
-----Message d'origine-----
De : anno@mindspring.com <anno@mindspring.com>
À : baudron@interpc.fr <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : mardi 1 septembre 1998 21:46
Objet : support
>HI IZZY! regarding support for the purchase of a base of operations: I think a formal proposal to Soros might be a >good idea once you have a plan and reasonably solid numbers in place. Am not exactly sure how to get attention there >but will try to find out. Once you have a draft of a proposal happening, once you you know more, I will work with you >on this.
>
Hi Anne,
Much thanks for your mail and proposal. :))))))))))
We got some work already done, but I must gather it and send it to you,
so you got an idea, and then we can make it better.
>I am inclined to forward some of your correspondence about this project to
>Rob Rosenthal & co. at Allen Ginsberg Trust here in NYC to get his feedback
>(if any). Is that OK with you? let me know.
>
Oh, yes, certainly. Much thanks for this.
The most of the mails on it are in the forum :
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/mails.html
I just added more today.
>I wish I could be with you to check out the hotel in Poitiers. I will try
>to dream myself there.
I 'll visit it on friday if the agent can get the keys of the hotel and house, then shall let you know.
Love and much thanks for your collaboration.
Iz
>
>love,
>Anne
**********************************************
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Interzone doc : the_doc27@hotmail.com
À : Isabelle Baudron <
baudron@interpc.fr>
- some people would like it as a place for holidays, so they would be clients of the hotel. For people who cannot pay the rent , then they might spent their time in remaining for free, if they help in the restaurant, or make concerts, expos, etc...
- some want a gathering place about Burroughs' work, in the style of the Beat Hotel, with Dreamachines and other Burroughs' devices. This sounds great to me too.
- some would like a shelter, a place to come when they are depressed, fed up, etc., or for a therapy , but this requires a competent doc; Jean-Pierre V. is the only one I know in Poitiers, and the only one I 'd trust really here, with Roger Gentis. They both have the experience of head doctors in psychiatric public services, and also of psycho-analysts : Jean-Pierre is a member of the Society of Psycho-analysis in Paris (Freudians). Though Freud is not my cup of tea, I'm not dogmatic. I know Jean-Pierre's way to work, and I never found a more effective doc in the hospital, nor a more respectful of the people he takes care of. Working with him was a real pleasure, and I would certainly not have quit my nurse job if the context of cares had remained the same after he left.
- the idea of the research on the dreamachine came to make money really : Z was payed by laboratories during his doctor studdies once to test some medicines, and he was quite well paid. So here, very frankly, the aim is first financial. But I find it interesting as well : the Zoners have certainly gathered quite a lot of infos on the subject, which might be susceptible to interest people working in this domain : private searchers or laboratories. Same for the dreams : this is the first time I see such a number of people in a group interested to share their dreams, out of a definite frame of reference. and this seems interesting to me too.
So I proposed this, and the people agreed to it. The experiment was perfect : in 3 years, we did not have the least problem of relationship between us, though some people had big relational troubles. But as the people changed their look on themselves and got more confident, they behaved in a more responsible way as a result. The group was fun for them, and Burroughs' recognition changed the hospital in a place of a unique experiment they were art of, and belonged to them (the role of Burroughs remained underground: I did not mention him officially, just showed his letters to the group who was aware of him.)
Besides Laborit's reference, I used Burroughs' ones : Johnson family and Academy, and tried to mix the whole. And it worked great.
Now Interzone is a different context, but the aim in the group B 23 was not to "cure" anybody, just to put up conditions which were supposed to fit to human needs. The patients were humans, and it worked with them, but it should fit the same in any human group : artistical, political, social, in schools, etc...
As far as exculsions are concerned , I feel very uncomfortable with this , because many Zoners are already excluded. So if somebody does not behave correctly, then I think I must tell him, and say what is not correct and explain why. People sometimes do not realize what is wrong, and need clear limits they will accept if they understand they are for their sake, and not to poison them.
I had definited to X the frame of relation I wanted to relate to him on. Then he thought during sometimes, and came back with his work done, because he realized he had pleasure to be in the Zone and wanted to stay. Since then, I have not heard about the least story from him. So I got no reason to let him out anymore, just find what he makes great, and want to encourage him in this sense.
Also I do not want to be a guru here, nor act as the chief nor an authority I am not. Nobody is perfect, and I may also have irrelevant attitudes, so when it happens to me, I'm glad the others say : "Hey ! what's this ?" The Zoners are not dummies. This seems to me very sane .
We had debates in february about the tee-shirt selling, some finding irrelevant to think about the tee-shirts when a war was about to burst out. And some exchanges in Interzone 23 hotmail were quite virulent. But people got sense of humour, and this did not lead to conflicts afterwards.
I once protested violently when a guy put on the net a text on a British young writer who had the reputation to be a crook, and which was really making fun of him.
This guy knows me, and certainly did not understand why one Zoner was attacking him like this without reason. So I asked the guy to take the text out, what he did immediately.
Now I must say I'm very struck by the level of the Zoners, which is very high, and the quality of relationships, which I never met before in any group. We got common references which allow us to talk the same language. We have not got in one year any real problems, any conflict which we could not solve. So I'm very admirative towards the Zoners really, and proud to work for the Zone.
Glad to hear that Y was pleased with our exchange. Please encourage her to keep us informed of her progress or to simply see us as a sympathetic ear.
Ok, Jim, I am gonna do it.
Much thanks for your help to her.
We exchanged two words on ICQ, she sems really found of the hotel idea.
I transmit your infos on the Dreamachine program to Jean-Pierre.
>Best Regards,
>J
All the best
Iz
**********************************************************************
De : Laurent Lambert <
sky86327@skynet.be>**********************
De : Baudron <
baudron@interpc.fr>
Hi all,
This common mail between 2 monthly reports about a question which requires your points of view :
Pierre Belouin thought about buying the Beat Hotel in Paris some time ago to welcome Zoners, and we found it is still running.
I called an agency in Poitiers to have an idea of the prices, and formalities about a place in the region, and the agent proposed one bar-hotel restaurant at half price of its value : the businness itself (not the place, but the licenses for alcohol and rights to run it) is worth 700 000 fr and its actual price : 350 000 fr (70 000 $). The previous owners were old, ran it for 33 years.
They wanted to sell it 800 000 fr, and refused two offers at 700 000 fr. Then they became ill and had to lower the price to sell it, and died.
The place contains : a hotel of 9 rooms, bar, restaurant,
and 100 m2 banquet room with a stage for groups, and the accomodation, a garden on the bank of a river, and a parking with 50 car spaces, the whole rented for 3 500 fr per month (700 $) The down offer is 10 % (35 000 fr) With the fees of solicitor and agency, the whole should be about 450 000 fr maximum.
The place is 5 minutes far from the Futuroscope and 10 minutes far from Poitiers' center,
in a touristic, universitary and historical area, so it can be full all year.
Knowing some of you are interested in such a project, I transmitted them the info, and they said it was very cheap and worth to have a look. Then I consulted a larger group, and people are quite enthousiastic about this idea.
Now we need to know how many of us are really interested to get involved in such a project, and to which title : who wants to work in it ? (at the moment we are two here, and 4 more have been asking for work)
who wants to invest money in it ?
One Zoner proposes to ask his associates to pay for the down offer, but they would ask for a percentage on the profits, monthly or annually. So what do you think about this idea ?
If we want to buy it, we first have to go to the sollicitor to give the down offer ( 10 % of the price = 35 000 fr), so nobody else can buy it. Then it takes 2 months to make the papers, acts, etc...
and after this time, we can get the place.
But we must be sure we got the whole sum when giving the down offer, as if we don't and
decide not to buy then, the money of the down offer is lost.
If we have not got the whole sum, we can also borrow the rest in a bank .
We might also consider seriously creating a society in the name of Interzone, with the help of Zoners gathering complementary abilities on the required domains and more able to deal with the financial questions than I.
I shall visit the place next week and take pics, which I'll scan, so you can have an idea.
Let me know what you think, quickly if possible.
You can find the infos on the forum where are included the mails about it in
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/mails.htmlLove
Izzy
******************************************************************
De : Don Simon <hope1ess@yahoo.com>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : jeudi 3 septembre 1998 22:53
Objet : Re: Hotel -restaurant in Poitiers ?
>Greetings Isabelle,
>
>I could contribute around $2000 US in the short-term, possibly more in
>the long-term (under $10,000 US in 6-8 months). Definetly keep me
>posted on the site and support for this idea.
>
>Don
******************************************************************
De : Michael Stutz <
stutz@dsl.org>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
De : Jim <
the_doc27@hotmail.com >*********************************************************
******************************************************
De : Michael Stutz <stutz@dsl.org>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : jeudi 3 septembre 1998 23:26
Objet : Re: Hotel-restaurant in Poitiers ?
>On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, BAUDRON Isabelle wrote:
>
>> who wants to invest money in it ?
>
>i do. but buying as a group there are problems: what will be decided for
it,
>like what will we do with it? this has to be decided up front, with signed
>contracts, i think.
Hi Michael,
Much thanks for your mail and offer. I agree completely with this. We have to consider the group thing and how we can get organized in this frame. The group is international, which can make things easier in some aspects, and more complicated in some other ones :
People have to express themselves about it. Some would like it to be run as an order : the money belongs
to the community who runs it according to its needs and possibilities. Now I got no idea of which status could allow us to
do this.
What are the other possibilities ? I must admit I am not aware of those questions , and think we should make a group of
people involved personnaly in the project : all people who finance it, the main Zoners who work in it since the beginning,
and the advocate, Gessie. then we could see clearer.
What are we gonna do with it ?
The thing is we must determine it before doing anything : the hotel must be adapted to the Zone, and not the Zone
to the hotel. I mean we can run it as a formal hotel-bar-restaurant, but it would be much less than we can do.
The aims of such a place are :
a gathering point for Zoners,
- a shelter,
- a place to come for holidays,
- a place to work : bar, hotel, restaurant,
- a place to rest, kick an habbit with medical assistance (not permanently, just when someone needs it fro time to time).
- a place for the Academy : unit of teaching and reseach,
- a place to sell our productions and make a Burroughs-Gysin museum with expos, shows, etc..., kind of a permanent place of cultural animation.
The formula of the hotel-bar-restaurant allows to fulfill all this, so we could settle our group organization in a
way which allows to function according to the respective needs of the individuals.
The proximity of the Futuroscope could be an advantage in the domain of new technics, and get people
interested in the Dreamachine and other Burroughs' and Gysin's devices.
>also will there be a way to recoup investment, since it >is a site with historical value?
As far as investments are concerned, here is what I know about the region. the department I live in is
the cheapest of France for the price of the land (10 000 - 15 000 fr for an hectare of earth) because
the regions is still rural, the level of unemployment is rather high, and the villages are getting deserted.
Many English people invest here in buying properties, much cheaper than in England.
Poitiers is not in the same district and the prices are higher due to the city, but remain correct. You could get in touch with a sollicitor here if you want to know more about those questions. Let me know if yes.
The difference with England is that the villages in France have not much changed since centuries and still keep the traces of the past : many have their own legend (the one I live in has one).
The contacts with the population are easy and welcome, which allows to buy products to farmers directly, and get a cheaper and much better food than in the supermarkets.
We also got castles falling apart. But France is very good for historical shows and productions : some place live from this : historical reconstitutions the whole inhabitants play in in costumes of the times (Le Puy du Fou, and other ones).
>if there will be work done to do this, i am
>interested in investing. not sure how much at this point, but if i interest
>my parents in this, and there was a way for profits, they might invest a
>good sum.
>
As far as investments are concerned, and without relation with Interzone, I guess that if the infos of the agent
are correct, and there is no reason why they would not be untill now, the place might be worth being bought it to it's present price and sold afterwards to its real value :) But only the sollicitor or the agent could tell this really.
Now in the frame of Interzone, first we must see the place and see if it fits our needs, then if we can get the money. Solve also those questions of group organization.
I propose to make a mail list with all the people personnally involved at different levels, exchange together about it,
and put the exchange in the forum. What do you think ?
You can see the mails there at :
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/mails.html
Much thanks for your involvement and support.
Cheers
Iz
*****************************************************
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Mark Mentzer <mentzerm@bestweb.net>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 4 septembre 1998 03:44
Objet : Re: Hotel-restaurant in Poitiers ?
I just wish I had the money to invest. I'd do it in a minute but, I have enough trouble keeping myself alive here in the States. Let me know the outcome. By the way, I've been meaning to get in touch with you. I'm putting up a commercial web site called offbeattv.com which is a virtual television set and virtual video store. I'll have a Beatnik channel and will show and sell beat videos. Check out the trial version at http://www.offbeattv.com/trial . I'll let you know when it is launched.
*****************************************************
De : Shelley Roye <sroye@cybergal.com>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 4 septembre 1998 03:05
Objet : Re: Hotel-restaurant in Poitiers ?
Dear Isabelle,
I would love to buy a share in the Beat Hotel!! For purely sentimental reasons. But I don't understand whether you are buying the BUILDING or just the BUSINESS LICENCE, or both?
I don't know how much I could contribute, as I'm just moving house myself and the Australian Dollar is worth very little on the world market today (55c USA!) so what seems a lot to me would not be worth very much overseas.
How are you planning to set up the funds/partnership? I would be interested to know more....
Shelley Roye
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
September 7th 98 baudron@interpc.fr
Hi all,
I went to see the hotel this morning.
The agent had a video camera and made a film, which I'm gonna tranmit to the Zone.
Here is the account of the visit :
I. Descripotion of the place :
- the surrounding : it's in the middle of Migne Auxance, a little commune 7 km far from Poitiers, on the main road and 5 kms far from the Futuroscope. There are facilities around (tobaco shop, supermarket, chemist, etc...)
- it's a small hotel-restaurant-bar, the only one of the place, so the people before had about 50 clients everyday for lunch French style, simple, a bit old fashionned.
The place is very clean and comfortable : there is a room for the bar restaurant, with 2 baby-foot , with behind another big room with a stage for banquets, concerts : there used to be jazz concerts every saturday night before.
Another small room for restaurant : so there are 3 rooms to serve the clients.
The wooden floor is impeccable and shiny.
The licence is IV : can seel all alcohols and remains openned untill 2 am. The equipment of the kitchen is modern , all the security norms are ok. There are cold rooms for the food, and a cellar, full of bottles of wine.
The hotel has 9 rooms: 4 double rooms and the rest single. Half are new (wall paper and floor), the rest has to be changed, but can work as it is. They all have a washbassin and a bidet, but the toilets and bathes are on the floor.
The price of the rooms are 150 fr for single, and 250 fr for double. They also had people in pension, permanently.
The bathrooms are ok, one big new one, the other one to change the painting.
The flat of the owners contains 2 bedrooms, one living room, toilets and bathrooms. It's all new and clean.
All the beds in the bedrooms are new (matresses, blankets, sheets, etc...)
The garden is nice, not very large but big enough to put some tables and chairs for the clients. A small river goes from each side. The parking can welcome 50 cars.
The place stopped to work 2 months ago. Just as it is, it's ready to work again : one can come it and open it immediately.
II. The money :
* The price includes the business, the licence, and the whole stuff inside : tables, chairs, beds, the dishes, and equipment. The rent is 3500 fr (700 $), which is nothing for the place, and will remain unchanged untill the end of the lease in 20005.
Then it will increase according to the official rate, as the owner cannot higher it more to the same renter.
The lady lowered the price : she accepts to sell it for 300 000 fr. The people need the money right now, so we are the last succeptible clients. If we don't take it, they will refuse the inheritage, and the place will be sold by auction.
The fees of the agency are : 34 370 fr and of sollicitor : 26 900 fr . So the whole price is : 361 000 fr which is with a $ at 5.6 : 64 465 $
* About our possibilities :
- Foe offers to get the money for the down payment : it was supposed to be 35 000 fr but has lowered to 30 000 fr ( 5358 $ with a $ at 5.6 fr as it now is)
The price here is much lower than it could be in Poitiers center, where you have to count 1 000 000 fr at least for it said the agent. (178571,5 $), which is far beyond our possibilities.
III. Does the place fits to our needs ?
What can we do with it ?
The friends I was with who visited the place with me, and have an experience in this kind of buying and work , think it's a valuable business to run formally as a bar, hotel restaurant.
To my taste I found it a bit noisy with the cars, but I'm used to a no car place, and the bedrooms can be equipped with anti-noise glass. Though in the evening, there is not much traffic and the nights should be quiet. The trucks don't cross the city.
Now does this fits to our needs in the Zone ? Can this place answer our expectations ?
If we take the different aims :
1. The place can welcome Zoners, but it's not a properly speaking fancy place at the moment, though the style can be changed.
2. It's easy of access, as 1.30 hour far from Paris, direct train, so it's easy to go and pick up people at the station.
3. For students looking for work (several are in this situation) ,it's near the university and can provide a room, and even a job in the bar, hotel or restaurant.
4. It can be a place where people can follow a cure or be treated as well (the previous owner was in this situation, in the regime of home hospitalization. )
5. We can make expos and concerts in the backroom when we want.
6. The small restaurant room can be fixed as a place for selling our stuff instead.
7. Now to put up an academy the place is small unless we use the hotel rooms for us : if we take the other rooms of the flat : it can easily welcome about 25 people
We can figure out the place can be reserved to the Zone at some times of the year, and would not welcome other clients then if we decide to have a meeting here.
IV. The staff and more possibilities :
I can work in the place : no problem for this : in the bar, the restaurant, the hotel, and make animations easily (musical), give lectures (general semantics, etc..., which can be done in Poitiers with the universitary surrouding).
As other people susceptible to work in it : 3 Zoners who look for studdying in France and for work as well will be welcome.
We can have a dreamachine (make some and seel them as well : the cost of making being ridiculous : about 50 fr including the turn table, which Emmaus proposed me at 20 fr 3 weeks ago) , also have a computer with the access to the Internet, and a pin-ball.
The big room with the stage communicates with the restaurant room, so it can work as a whole bigger room if we want to, and the banquet room can be fixed as a Burroughs' museum as well as restaurant room, with paintings and pictures on the walls.
So here are the most of the infos. I see with some of you who can put the video on the net, so you can have a look : I took some pics, but my camera is not very good so I do not expect too much from them.
I put this mail on the net in the forum. Let me know your impressions, thoughts, questions, etc...
Now, I have no interest in this by myself, and shall not buy the hotel alone for me, nor run it alone either.
If you want a place here and this place seems to you worth it, you can count on me. If you don't, then let's forget it.
If we don't take it and one of you is interested to get it for himself, then let me know and I'll give you the coordinates of the agent.
Last point : the people who sell it are expecting for an answer in a delay of a week. I explained the situation and said we needed enough time to consider the thing, and see if we can get the money. So we should let them know about what we do at the end of next week.
So if you could let me know what you think during the following days, this would be kind of you. I'll put your mails in this forum, so you can access the set of the infos.
For the video, if you can tell me who can view it and put it on the net, this would be great : Foe is very busy at the moment with a work he has to make, and Jeremy has gone to holidays. The agent says it's compatible with all video formats : pal, secam, VHS.
Over and Out.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
***************************************************
De : Vegas Branch <
foe4foe@sprynet.com>great summery in such a short time.
looking forward to seeing the videolike the idea of museum and cyber cafe
but also like the idea of traditional French diner why don't we combine both?also happy to hear there is a creek in the backyard
how bad is the traffic?
love, f
**************************************************
De : Jim Byer <
the_doc27@hotmail.com >Your mention of a 'Burroughs Museum' causes me to think that this might be a very worthwhile aspect of the business. If you could emphasize this, create a serious museum, I believe you would draw quite a few tourists and Burroughs fans. For my part, I have a syringe set dating from the 1940's that matches the rig William carried with him for some time.
Yes, I think that might be your best approach; a quality Burroughs museum. You now have the influence to obtain exhibits from varied sources and I would pursue them. This aspect will almost certainly assure success if the exhibits are compelling.
Best as Always,
Jim
*************************************
De : Michael Stutz <
stutz@dsl.org>De :
R. Gentry <ricochet@reninet.com>Hi Isabelle,
Thanks for the account of the visit. It sounds like a reasonable price for the place and there's a part of me that would love to be a hotel manager in a quaint French village. I hope someone can come up with the money. With a physical headquarters for Interzone, things could really begin happening.
Love,
Rick
********************************************
De : Fabienne et Liberale Maroelli <fab@bluewin.ch>
À : baudron@interpc.fr <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : jeudi 10 septembre 1998 01:33
Objet : la mer
hi
je sais pour l'hotel... bon, quoi, c'est attrayant mais: à ce prix we buy que le matos de l'hotel, je veux dire, assiettes, draps et tout le sacré caphar, l'hotel-bâtisse, lui, on n'achete qu'eventuellement le droit de le louer, non? le parc immobilier d'interzone, c'est pas encore ça, éh? et nourrir des intermédios, c'est un peu... euh... non? ehin?
ben quoi, tout ce matos, sans l'hotel autour, ça vaut quoi? je veux dire, ça fait de la plus value et... et quoi? ça vaut ou pas? c'est comme si on paie (un peu cher) ce qu'on nomme un "pas de porte" les murs ben ils sont à louer. point. alors bon, ça me semble un peu boiteux, ça.évidemment les agents, là, il ne vont pas peindre le diable on the wall,
non... bien sûr. mais, ce pognon, là, c'est pas cher et c'est cher, pour acheter disons euh... comme un concept. le jour où que le owner de l'hotel, qu'on ne sait pas bien là qui que c'est, eh bien, sur un coup de tête il refourgue son box pour en faire le disons museé de la pipe, il nous reste au moins un peu de vaisselle et les draps, et deux baba-foot, noon? de quoi meubler à la bonne... quoi donc? on verra, on verra...! bon, ben, suis pas trop enthou, éh?! tu vois, c'est que c't'affaire, là, qu'elle est tout beau tout bien hoplà et j't'enfourne le tout mais. mais mais il y a mais le mais mais. et le mais dire
c'est la mer, la même qui se trouve entre le dire et le faire, non?
et si la mer reste entre ces deux pôles là, les pôles t'as pas mais la mer t'a et si la mer t'a, reste l'amer, or là où la mer reste l'ardeur passe et reste l'amer, l'amer de la mer. donc donc mais, mais donc là deux pôles t'as pas et entre deux toits le sûr n'est pas toujours celui là. pooint. sais pas. c'est de la jolie vaisselle? pas dépareillée?
les draps, c'est du solide?? gnar gnar gnar! en fait, je sais pas. certes c'est nice, le, comme idée. very nice. attractive, the chose.but... but but but... l'énergie investie in zoninter est déjà grande,
alors, ets... est-ce... n'est-ce pas un peu prématuré, alors que interzone éclôt, qu'il ne commence qu'à se structurer, n'est-ce pas filer les étapes que de se projeter dans ce vues certes nice mais?
remarque, je ne fais que de poser la question, je fonctionne un peu ainsi. en fait qu'est interzone pour moi? abstrait, pour le moment.
comme abstrait est ce lien au web, cette communauté... je n'ose dire virtuel, j'use l'abstrait, ou l'abstrait m'use, ou j'use de l'abstrait, c'est selon et/ou suivant. qui est quoi ou quoi et qui est. les vertus virtuelles de l'abstrait vertueux, le jeu des valeurs synérgiques fuyant le vide du néant. être, mais être, virtuel? abstrait? vertueux? le jeu du jeu des rôles, voià l'enjeu. et que de rôles, que de rôles. créer, ne serait-ce pas là le seul enjeu qui en vaille la peine? le rôle le moins
virtuel, le moins abstrait, le moins vertueux? mon enjeu? sais pas.
et ce que peut être fade, parfois, ce monde un peu miniprix du web, qui se laisse voir comme un supermarché de gros... est-ce vraiment de la communication ou alors sa négation la plus miévre? que dis-tu?
qui sommes nous, par ce que de nous paraît ici? que laissons-nous paraître? quoi d'objectif, et quelle focale? des fois je me demande.
pourtant, le rôle du mail dans l'écrit, ou alors l'écrit dopé par le mail dans la structure de la création sont pour moi des paramétres réels, que je suis donc bien obligé de considérer si j'examine ce cheminement stimulé par la synérgie génerée de/par la correspondance... qui est l'autre dans ce jeu? et quel est son rôle? qui est qui? avec
quels besoins? explicites? implicites? encore une fois, quel est
l'enjeu? quel rôle? bon, voilà...
look'n'forw'd
Liberale Maroelli
quel rôle?
*****************************************
September 10 th 98 baudron@interpc.fr
Hi all,
The question of the hotel is obsolete as the inheritors have decided to refuse it, so it's not gonna be possible to buy it anymore untill it will be sold by auction in future.
Anyway, much thanks to all of you who got interested in this project and sent their feed-back, all very useful.
For all of you who are interested in us getting a place somewhere, we might proceed in another way : gather all the possibilities we foresee in different places and evaluate them practically. Then, we can make a choice according to our possibilities.
Also this first attempt has showed the limits of buying something and the problems it leads to .
We can also foresee better what would answers to our expectations : the hotel in question was too small, and in a too busy place. Something in a quiet place would be more appropriate it seems. Kind of an abbaye, but it's not so easy to find.
Future will tell J
Love
Iz
*********************************************
De :
Change77@aol.com <Change77@aol.com> Okay Iz:
i'm gonna stop long enough to reply -- i thought the place sounded fantastic -- i would definitely make a visit or three -- and, being in a bad sun-spot of my life i even have fantasies of dropping the ball and coming over to join the
parade.
so, as much as i'm inept in your solution toward a Zone Hotel, i not only love it but think about it often.
that's about as far as i can float at the moment......
please forgive me but i just bought a scanner and will try to send you some work for no other reason than experimentation and to let you know i appreciate your consideration.
the ran
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De : Laurent Lambert <
sky86327@skynet.be>Hello Iz,
Sure there is a good opportunity for the hotel.
First of all,you have to get in touch with the landlord and make sure that you can rent the place in the same conditions as the former tenant.Once you have done that,you contact the liquidator and offer him a certain sum for the whole inventory.This offer should not be too high,maybe between 10 and
20 thousand FF;for sure never more than 25% of the "new" value of the goods.The advantage for the liquidator in that case,is,that he can avoid the expenses of an auction,and that he can deal with only one
person.If,however he doesn't accept the offer,you still can attend the auction and try to buy the whole inventory.It's amazing sometimes how cheap you can get the stuff (between 10 and 30% of the newprice). Who's gonna be interested in second hand kitchen equipment and bedding,and for what
price???Your advantage is that you won't have to move anything,compared to other eventual buyers.
This is your opportunity to get a hotel,ready to step in,for almost free.
Iggy
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Hi all,
About the hotel, the inheritors have
decided to refuse the inheritage, so the business will be put in the hands of a liquidator . It seems then that we can get it for much less than it's present price : see Iggy's mail : (upper on this web page actually J )So this would be really interesting in those conditions.
You can see all the mails about this question at : http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/mails.htmlLet me know what you think.
Love
Iz
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De :
Change77@aol.com <Change77@aol.com>**********************************
De :
Kevin <ksent@123.net.com>October 26th 98
Hi all,
This mail to tell you about the project of Academy on the web. Jeremy Gluck Spiritech UK http://www.geocities.com/~spiritechuk sent a course some days ago which seems to me worth being spread (What Can Be Done With Words?), and we talked about beginning the Academy on the web, where we could gather such material for studdies.
Jeremy is teacher at uni in England, and works on the links between spirituality and technology. He is interested in the project of web Academy and is gonna beguin on his site with his own stuff and what people will send to him about it. He is gonna bring it to the attention of his university. Untill now, here are the main subjects we can include in the academy : see the menu http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/infzone.html which I have just changed.
- The status of an eventual organization for Interzone : very franlky, I am not sure yet an official association under the law of 1901would be the best, though I think we must put up something. I see us more like an artistic current orientated on a magic use of art, more conform to its original functions than to the mercantile use our society makes of it, and on the exploration of territories Burroughs and Gysin explored before us.
- Forums presently existing on several subjects : Physical academy, enonomical organization, common projects, etc...
- Medical research.
- Any other domain of teaching and research you would propose.
See if you got writings to send, they will be welcome.
Love
Iz
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November 5th 98
Hi all,
Got a letter from the liquidator this morning for the hotel, with a description of the whole business. She looks for a buyer for it. So the infos I got before were correct about the rent (3568 f / month : f about 650 $ untill 2005 ) and everything. She says that if we are interested, we must make an offer before November 18th Iggy thinks we should propose not more than 8000 fr (1300 $ ), and if they do not accept, then go to the auction.
Now if we really want to make it, then we shall need more money : I wrote down the project in French for the people I want to present it here before, with a previsionnal budget to have an idea of the whole thing, so this would require that we got money aside 20 000 fr to start (about 4000 $).
About the money, the only one I got is the 225 fr (45 $) on the account for the Zone, from the tee-shirt selling.( Code banque : 11706 - Code guichet : 00001 - N° compte : 51379872001 - Cle RIB : 07 ) In other words: I got none. So cannot invest anything in it.
So considering things at the moment, there are a number of probabilities for us not to make it.
Though, I'll go and visit next week with the couple of friends who are interested in working in it and welcoming Zoners and shall meet the liquidator then and talk about all this directly with her.
. Another friend here says he can take care of the countability, he is used to make his own since years. Kevin in US also proposed his services for the countability; he is used to restaurant business.
I gave a phone- call to the lady of the association of help to put up entreprises, and she said to go on, as the project is interesting, and advises to send it to the regional direction of culturel affairs (DRAC), as they could be interested in it and give subventions for it. So I'm gonna send the project to the guy there, with the budget.
Presently, I'm the only people on the Zone who can work in it right now. Koulin and his wife are willing to come, but they are stuck in Africa without money. Don in US who has the experience in this sort of work and would like to make it too has before to get the authorization to get the long visa, but it takes 6 months !!!
Anyway, there might be other possibilities out of this place if we cannot make it.
Renting a big house and opening a bar with a small licence could be possible as well. And would not require any business to buy. See what you think.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : joshua l <
Hey all :)
Today was a good day : got a paper from the bank this morning
saying one Zoner, Wales from Holland, sent 50 $. So we now got nearly 100 $ , which we shall get when everybody has payed the tee-shirts.
I also received two tapes from the Ran, who is a great musician. Several zoners have been sending tapes since the beginning, so if their authors are okay with it, I can double them and sell them to the Zoners who want to buy them :so we might put up our own organization for the prices, etc.
This morning I called the liquidator for the hotel : and asked about buying the equipment separetely : she said the whole business is for sale at the moment, and if nobody has bought it on the 18th, then it will be sold at an auction, so there we may get the equipment for a piece of bread. If somebody buys it, then we can find another place.
Now we should consider seriously the question of the status. The association is definitely the easiest to put up and can allow to get subventions from culture. The society is more safe, and can allow to get money from the banks.
So I suggest we make both : first the association, with the Zoners involved here : and then the society, which seems the most serious to make businness, with other members who know about business and money.
What do you think ? does this seem relevant ?
The people involved here are Pierre Belouin, Gary Leeming, Iggy, Ramuncho, whom I all met already, and Max, from Perpignan, whom I never met. From Holland there are Wales and Rasta Robert.
So why not fixing a date to meet ? We might make it around Christmas.
See what you think.
I think that the more Zoners will be involved in responsabilities, the best it will be for the whole group. Also we can make the association in one country, and the society one in another one, according to the easiest laws and rules.
Also, we might make the association here in France, were there is a small, but active group, and the society in US, where the big majority of the Zone is, including members from other continent as well (Japan, Lebanon, Indonesia, or Malaysia for instance).
Jake in US proposes we put up a system of cards see http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/forum-money.html and make our own publishing house, which had already been proposed at the beginning. Today, we got enough books altogether to start a collection, so why not ?
Another idea to make money : I can make chocolates for Christmas and sell them to the Zoners.
see what you think with those ideas.
The academy on the web is growing very fast : Jeremy has put a lot of writings in the House of Light http://www.geocities.com/~spiritechuk/hol1.html
A lot of stuff too in http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9445/
All the best.
Love
Iz
The Western Lands
http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands
Interzone Academy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9445/
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